Today is the kickoff day for the Crocodaddy book blog tour, put on by Kidz Book Buzz and I am happy to give you an interview with the author, Kim Norman.

Author Kim Norman’s first picture book, JACK OF ALL TAILS, was released by Dutton, a Penguin imprint, in 2007. CROCODADDY, (Sterling, a subsidiary of Barnes & Noble), makes its grand debut in May. She is looking forward to the release of two titles in 2010: I KNOW A WEE PIGGY WHO WALLOWED IN BROWN, illustrated by Henry Cole, (Dutton); and TEN ON THE SLED, (Sterling.)

Kim is active in community theater and her church’s music program. (She loves pretending she’s a pop star singing into a mic for the praise & worship service.) She lives in Virginia with her husband, (the REAL Crocodaddy), two sons, a dog and a cat. 

She’s also quite generous–I asked these questions a couple of months ago and reading them back now, I can’t believe I did this. I basically weaseled out of her a whole course, almost, on how to write a picture book. And on top of that I asked her silly questions about what kinds of shoes she likes. I guess I was trying to get  a little something for everyone. That’s one theory, anyway. Another might just be that as I age I lose more and more brain function. Regardless, she answered the questions, so I’m publishing her answers for all to see.

Sally: Where do your stories come from-are you looking back at your childhood or are you watching your own children? (Do you even have children?)

KIM: I do! Two boys, 15 and 21, so they’re much too old for my books now. I’d always been a word person, good with crafting a phrase and writing the occasional song parody or light verse poem, but never really thought about writing books — especially writing children’s books — until I had children of my own and began reading to them. That reawakened my love of children’s books — the kind of love I had as a child. I was a voracious reader, especially from 4th thru 7th grade.

Often my book ideas come from wordplay. A phrase will come to me, or a rearrangement of an idiom, or even a typo, and it sparks an idea. Crocodaddy is a story that definitely came from my family life. My husband Kelvin — to whom the book is dedicated — was the “real” Crocodaddy in our little backyard pool.

Sally: Hey, you’re never too old for a fun picture book. I bet your boys like your books.

Can you tell us about your journey to publication?

KIM: It’s easy to remember the year I finished writing my first picture book, (rather than just dabbling at unfinished stories.) I’d had an idea for a while and sat down in a chair in the corner of my bedroom one morning, predawn, after placing my younger son, then an infant, back into his crib. It took me a few years to become more serious about seeking publication, writing other stories, joining a critique group as well as the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators, (SCBWI.)

I got my “big break,” as they say, when I met my future Dutton editor at an SCBWI conference. She liked the manuscript I submitted for her review, and suggested revisions. I revised two or three times before she made an offer on the book in the spring of 2003. It took four years for that book, Jack of All Tails, to come out. In the meantime, I sold Crocodaddy to Sterling. I’ve since sold two more books (one to Dutton, one to Sterling, both coming out in 2010, if all goes well), and have acquired an agent.

Sally: Wow! Four years! PB’s have such a long journey to the shelf. So do you ever think about writing something else? Something for adults? Got any novels going? Or are you sticking with picture books?

KIM: I do love picture books. I think it’s definitely my favorite genre. I love the cadence of picture book language, even when it’s not in rhyme. (So far, three of my four books have been written in rhyme.) And I love how spare and succinct picture book texts are. They’re spare because you have to leave room for the illustrator to tell some of the story, too.

But I would definitely love to (finish!) writing a novel. I’ve got a couple on the burners; I just need to turn up the heat. I have an “evil inner editor” who tends to natter more loudly in my head when I’m writing longer works. It’s easier to get lost in a longer narrative, at least for me. I compare it to wandering around, blindfolded, with no map!

Sally: Oh, yeah, that nattering evil inner editor can be brutal, can’t she?  Mine likes to beat me over the head with a dead fish.

But you seem to be able to silence yours when you perform. You like doing school visits and you know how to entertain a room full of eight-year-olds. Any tips for those of us who are terrified of public speaking?

KIM: I’m lucky that I don’t tend to get stage fright very often, especially when I’m performing as a character. Somehow I feel less responsible: “Hey, it’s not ME up there; it’s the character!”

Of course, that attitude is of no use for public speaking. It IS you up there! I do use relaxation techniques when I’m feeling on edge — which I tend to experience more when I’m feeling rushed or under-prepared. (I used to sing occasionally with a local big band, which always made me feel a little more nervous than theatrical work — simply because the band generally held only one rehearsal before a performance. I wasn’t as experienced as those older musicians who could play those old standards in their sleep; I needed practice!)

Anyway, back to my relaxation exercises, which employ some self-hypnosis techniques: I try to find a spot to sit quietly, close my eyes and breath deeply. I count backwards from 10 to 1. Then I imagine myself in a bubble where nothing can harm me, and I can do no wrong. My bubble is a nice, calming green, because green is my favorite color. After a minute or two, I really do feel more relaxed and confident.

KIM: I definitely think many comedic skills can be learned. The essence of humor is surprise: Watching an old silent movie, you see a man step off the curb into a puddle. You expect a splash, but when he disappears completely, leaving only his hat floating on the surface, you’re surprised and find yourself laughing.

When my younger son was about two, he howled with laughter when a book surprised him with the word “THUD” after a page-turn. He laughed for a long time, asking me to read it again and again.

Performed humor relies on timing, too. I think most people know that, even if they don’t quite understand how the timing is making them laugh. Often, it’s a perfectly-timed “beat,” a pause before the comedian zings you with the punchline. It’s less obvious, but written humor relies on the same kind of timing — carefully placing a surprising word at the very end of the sentence, for instance, to milk it for the greatest humor. Humorous writing, like stand-up comedy, also relies on specificity. I remember a passage written by Irma Bombeck that cracked me up because she was so specific. She compared a snort not just to a motor, but to “a motor that had just turned over in a 1936 Chevy.”

Sally:  Oh, and Irma was one funny lady, wasn’t she? I can see, too, how being specific can be fresh and funny.

Rhymes can be funny, too. They are often silly. You said three of your books were in rhyme. I’ve heard that editors don’t like books in rhyme because they get so much bad rhyme. How can picture book writers improve their rhyme and rhythm?

KIM: I think most rhyme writers have an innate sense of rhythm, but some things can be learned: such as the importance of counting the BEATS in a line rather than every single syllable. The number of beats is more important than the number of syllables. (For instance, “Crododaddy” has 4 syllables, but only one stressed beat, on the first syllable.)  

Also, remember that multi-syllable rhyme must rhyme all the way back to the last STRESSED BEAT in the word you’re rhyming. So, for instance, “awkward” and “forward” don’t rhyme, even though their last syllable is identical. The rhyme must go all the way back to include the last stressed syllable. (So, good luck; that means you’ve got to rhyme the WHOLE word, “AWK-ward.” Um… “hawkward?” Or you might want to try a two-word rhyme, like “…talk word.” But you’d have to be careful to structure your sentence so that the reader would know to place the stress on “talk.” Sometimes that’s a tall order.)

Which leads me to the best piece of advice when writing rhyme: even when you think it’s perfect, ask friends to read it aloud, so you can hear where they stumble. If they do, you know you’ve got more work to do. Rhythmic rhyme should be so flawless that anyone can read it “cold” and not stumble on the rhythm. If you have friends who are musical, that helps, because they’re likely to have a strong sense of rhythm. If THEY stumble, you definitely need to fix something.

Sally: One reason editors get bad rhyming books may be that so many people think that picture books are easy to write. They think all it takes is knowing how to rhyme. Are picture books easy? How long does it take you, from conception to final draft, to write one?

KIM: Hmm. Depends. Some come to me very quickly, and I can write and revise them in a few days. Some, like Crocodaddy, need several rounds of revisions — not so much to perfect the rhyme as to perfect the plot. Even a rhyming book needs the “C” elements which make fiction interesting: character and conflict. (Even if it’s a simple conflict, like a kindergartner not knowing how to tie his shoes.) A perfectly rhymed book without those elements would be hard to sell to a publisher.

And back to your first point in that question, whether they’re hard to write. Picture books are deceptive. They’re short and quick to read, so people (namely celebrities, it seems), think they’re easy to write. In fact, it’s very hard to write a good picture book. Most picture book authors have gone through a long apprenticeship learning to write strong, salable manuscripts. Picture books cram a LOT of elements–characterization, conflict, pacing, repetition, humor or pathos, well-timed page-turns, story arc and visual variety–into a tiny space.

Visual variety is key in a picture book. You may have written perfectly-paced, hilarious dialogue between two unforgettable characters, but if they’re just sitting there, there’s not much for the illustrator to do.

Sally: I’ve heard that a picture book needs a beginning, a middle, and an end. Now, you talk about character and conflict. In Crocodaddy there is conflict/character goal and resolution. Do all picture books need this?

If not a conflict and goal, at least an arc that makes the reader feel as though there has been forward motion, however gentle. Gentler books with less conflict are sometimes called “slice of life,” such as a sweet book about a family’s day at the beach. Even a book like that will usually have a nice arc — something that refers you back to the beginning: for instance, riding in the car, only this time in the opposite direction, returning home. Sometimes a carefully repeated phrase will provide the arc, a phrase you pluck from the beginning and repeat near the end.

Some books are more about concept than conflict, like Which Rabbit are You?, a pop-up board book by my friend and critique buddy, Liz Dubois. There is no central character or plot, but she brings it to a nice resolution, reminding the reader that we’re all different, like the colorful rabbits in her book.

Sally: And we are all different. For instance some people love the pictures in PB’s. And they aren’t wrong. The pictures are obviously important (hence the name picture book instead of word book). Still, I’m a word person. I’m attracted to PB’s  more by the fun words than by the fun pictures. What are fun words and how can we learn to use them in our writing? I think crocodaddy is a fun word, why are we attracted to a word like that?

KIM: Ooo, excellent question! I think it’s pleasing for two reasons: because of the consonants, especially the hard “c,” (humorists contend that a “k” sound automatically adds humor), and because it has such a strong stress on the first syllable. So my refrains are almost a drumbeat: “CROC-odaddy, CROC-odaddy.” Even though it’s a totally made-up word, I have never heard even one person mispronounce it. AND, they immediately have an idea of what it means, as soon as they hear the word.

I agree with you. Fun, surprising words improve a book, especially for reading aloud. I adore when an author makes up a word, and yet — even though it’s new — I know exactly what it means. And even books written in prose borrow tools from poets to increase read-aloud enjoyment. Among my favorite borrowed poetic tools are repetition and alliteration.

Sally: Yes, I like repetition and alliteration, also. OK, so let’s say you love to rhyme, you love rhythm, you love fun words, and repetition and alliteration… How do you come up with ideas that will interest youngsters?

KIM: I’m not sure I have child readers in mind when I’m first developing a concept. I just play with words and ideas that please me, then begin to shape them into a format that works for the picture book crowd. Some themes that are eternal, whether you were a child in the 1960s, 80s or now: school, siblings, nature, pets… the choices, (and ideas!) are endless.

Sally: Five favorite picture books (besides your own fine tales, I mean)?

KIM: Oh yummy! Hard to pick only five! Among my favorites in my sons’ collections were:

1. Chicka Chicka Boom Boom
2. If You Give a Mouse a Cookie
3. The Monster at the End of this Book (I can do a spot-on Grover impersonation!)
4. Mrs. Gaddy and the Fast-Growing Vine
5. Pickle for a Nickle

Favorites from my own childhood were from story collections. I read many of the variously-hued Fairy Books from the early 20th century, especially The Yellow Fairy Book, an old reprint we owned. My two favorite fables were “The Three Billy Goats Gruff,” and “The Old Woman and her Pig.” I loved the repetition in those books.

Sally: OK some silly questions. Feel free to answer or not and to give reasons or not:

Favorite day of the week?

KIM: Saturday, I think. That’s when I get to see my husband the most.

High heels or flats?

KIM: Flats, please! (Especially tennis shoes.) Although I do wish they were more flattering!

Desert heat or Arctic cold?

KIM: Oh dear, hard one. Don’t like heat, especially humidity, which would be the one saving quality of desert heat: it’s dry. But I don’t like having cold feet, either! I like it best when it’s cool, even if it’s chilly and rainy. Then I have an excuse for snuggling with a good book!

If you could spend one afternoon with any person who has ever lived (famous, infamous, or unknown) who would it be?

KIM: Easy: I’d ask to have one more day with my dear, wise, old dad.

Sally: Ah. I’m sorry he’s not here. It’s great that you loved your dad. Some people don’t love their dads much. And some dads aren’t worthy of love.

Well, thanks for all the in-depth answers! You’ve been so generous! Care oblige us for one more minute and give us a sneak peak at upcoming books (that wee piggy one sounds adorable)?

KIM: Wee Piggy came in a delightful moment of inspiration just after I woke up one morning. I’d always wanted to write something based on the cumulative verse “I know an old woman who swallowed a fly.” That morning as I lay in bed, in that nice hazy place when you’re still dreamy, it came to me: “I know a wee piggy who wallowed in brown.” Eureka! A color book! That’s coming out in 2010, if all goes well.

Ten on a Sled came equally swiftly. The book which delighted my son with the “thud” sound was a version of “Ten in a Bed.” I adored that book, and one morning at my desk I suddenly thought, “Ten on a…. sled!!” I dropped everything that instant, and wrote the first draft in a few hours. My critique group made some marvelous suggestions, I wrote a revision, and fired if off to my editor at Sterling, who loved it. It’s scheduled for publication in the fall of 2010, to take advantage of the snow theme for winter holiday book buyers.

I’ve got something more lyrical which I have just finished. It may be a harder sale, because it’s a “quiet” bedtime book. But my fingers are crossed. Bedtime books DO continue to be published, after all.

Then there’s the book for which I created an original muffin recipe. My sons were happy to help with that project!

Sally: Great! A lot more Kim Norman books to look forward to, then.  Any questions I should have asked but didn’t?

KIM: Gosh, I think that’s plenty. Probably more than anyone ever wanted to know about me, even my mother! Haha!

Sally: Ha! I doubt that. Thanks, Kim, for so generously sharing your life and learning with us!

 

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